[wasteland1952]

A couple of days ago, my good friend posted the old classic Crystal video of Mary vs Theresa.  I made a comment that both of those women must be in their 50's by now, and perhaps have grand kids.

I've always been extremely curious about the backgrounds of the women who agree to meet and fight for outfits like Crystal, ECNWC, etc.  I've always been fascinated by the fact that some of these women may be the girl next door, your neighbor, the soccer mom down the street, the woman who waited on you at the DMV office, or any other regular woman you might know or run across in everyday life.  It could even be your wife or girlfriend.

I know that any everyday, girl next door might get into a catfight if they had a little too much to drink, and get into an altercation at a bar or club, or if some woman came up to them and attacked them for whatever reason.  But I'm talking about the producers of catfights.  Who do they get to fight for their videos, and how do they find women who will do it?  I've always found it extra thrilling to think that a woman I worked with, or my doctor, lawyer, or bank teller had a secret life as a catfighter.  And it's an extra turn on if they are married and have children.

I had always heard that the girls who fought for Crystal were dancers or strippers.  I also heard that Andi, the beautiful and buxom Crystal fighter stopped fighting when she got married, and her husband didn't want her to fight anymore.

Can anyone shed any light on this?  If anyone has ever worked producing catfight videos, or known someone in the business, I'd be curious to know how they get women to fight, and what type of women agree to do it.

[catfightlover40]

I do very much like a video from ages ago, where two women have fought, one of them by her own admission in the interview said (and at this point I'd like to add, I love it when a fight is humanized by us getting to know the fighters) that she's a girl next door type who's never been in a fight, but was interested in the financial compensation, and she had seen some videos before, so I definitely think advertisement is one angle. I love it when back in the day it was framed as "nonsexual erotic work", since it's still an adult video.

The other woman had been in fights before, one of them had to be broken up by a deputy. As far as I know, arrests record, if the person isn't underage or it's sealed by a court, is public knowledge. I'm not saying they had a lawyer or cop friend to find them spitfires who have had troubles with the law, but it's not improbable either.

Last, but not least, I do know that Eastern European women are attracted to this for one or two reasons. The first one is, that outside some music festivals, there is no oil and mud wrestling scene, strip clubs don't offer them, and contact sports aren't sexualized, there's just straight wrestling or kickboxing. You don't have to take my word for it, a lack of sexual revolution is a strong indicator if there's no public interest, there's no commercial supply either. There, however, can also be a secondary reason. Some get involved because they like the sensual side of wrestling, to mean they're LGBT. Now, being LGBT isn't that much welcome (it's practically legal to deny lease to an apartment) so it's easier to build a career in fighting sports where people are more appreciative of what you are and who you are.

[MaskedBunny]

I feel like a lot of Crystal films girls were in trouble with the law and looking for money to pay for it. Or some had grudges with girls who competed for them and were told 'hey, lets get paid to fight.' I believe that may be how either Cori or Shawna started. During interviews they mentioned a bar fight and then they kept fighting for them later on.

Someone I wish was still around was Bruce from Academy. He would be prime to ask since he had such a wide variety. He had some adult performers, but he also had college girls, a firefighter, dancers, a gymnast. He always got regular girls and it was amazing seeing them compete. Renee from Catfight haven would also be another to ask, since she did well back in the day at getting girls.

DWW once did a video where they went around asking girls (so did C and B as well). Like mentioned, wrestling is taught to females in european schools. Most girls I imagine there either realize they can make more money doing this or they have a more lax view of nudity and sexuality that it probably doesn't bother a lot of them. Here in the US, girls are very embarrassed and uneasy about grappling with a half naked girl or think you must be a lesbian or bi to do it.

[catfightlover40]

All really good points. Within the last few years I followed a story about a cop who filmed women catfighting and paid the fighters for participating. It was his “small business” and he didn’t see the harm in encouraging women who he met “on the job”. Here’s a story from a local newspaper in North Carolina:

https://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/news/local/crime/article183736721.html

I'd find 3 Latin words for describing it, but since it lost all meaning, I shouldn't bother

[wasteland1952]

Awesome replies.

MaskedBunny, I understand what you're saying about girls wrestling.  What I'm really curious about, though, is actual fights.  I know that the ECNWC fights I've seen have been genuine, but there were also obvious rules.  For instance, I never saw those women hit each other in the face.  And of course, no scratching or biting.  Crystal didn't allow biting or scratching either, but aside from that, those women really fought just like they would on the street.  I get that ordinary, girl next door women, who might have done some wrestling in high school or college might be interesting in doing some wrestling.  But to actually engage in a catfight, that's something else.  I don't know why, but it just fascinates me, the thought of a couple of girl next door types, agreeing to meet to engage in a real catfight.

Cornerman, thanks for that article.  I hadn't seen that.  Do you know if that guy went to jail?

[Bear]

Not sure how Crystal went about getting women to participate in their early vids, and in fact, sometimes it looked like some of the women were shocked to find out that their opponent was very aggressive.  The look of "what the hell have I gotten myself  into" was written all over their faces as they desperately looked for an escape hatch.  But in most cases they managed to bring together two competitive, uninhibited women for a good battle.  Whether they needed the money (which most probably did) or they just liked to fight are two possibilities.  But unless someone from those production companies steps up and answers your Q, we'll never know for sure. 

Later on, a lot of the fights were produced by Deb and her husband.  She said that they ran ads in local papers in the Chicago area and managed to attract women that way.  I would assume that word-of-mouth provided other leads. 
No doubt the women who fought were downright tough girls, who had probably been involved in fights throughout their life.  They money was probably OK, but here's another possible motive.  Most people like to watch themselves on video, and for some of these Crystal fighters they became cult heroines overnight.  Years ago I had a student who used to bring his video camera to school (before cell phones) and film fights that occurred in and around school.  He would make copies and sell the VHS tapes to the combatants.  He did quite a business. 

Just my thoughts. 

[presenterfan]

There was a free magazine called Ms London which was free and mainly distributed from the entrances to underground station. I saw one which carried an advert for 'Girls to wrestle at a private club, no experience neccessary'.  and the phone number.  I knew this was from Festelle.   Apparently they got quite a response but although girls and women said they were interested many would not show up. In this respect the company needed a small pool of regulars so they could always put a reasonable show on. Of the girls who did show many only appeared once, perhaps  surprised that they were expected to compete and not just roll around.   Some of the matches had a sporting nature while others had real needle and and very aggressive.   I too was fascinated by what these ladies did.  At meetings I attended i came across a stripper, a couple of topless dancers from a famous London Revue Bar,  one girl had toured with a production of the musical  'Grease'. They girls were used to being before an audience of course, but other included a wages clerk,  a care worker,  a foreign girl who was living with a family in London and acting as nanny to their children.   I remember a couple of girls with very posh accents and obviously from middle class backgrounds.   The types were varied.    Personally I always thrilled if I saw two novices match against each other,    The thought there was always the chance  I might be watching a hair dresser fighting a shop assistant. Thrilling.

[catfightlover40]

Not sure how Crystal went about getting women to participate in their early vids, and in fact, sometimes it looked like some of the women were shocked to find out that their opponent was very aggressive.  The look of "what the hell have I gotten myself  into" was written all over their faces as they desperately looked for an escape hatch.  But in most cases they managed to bring together two competitive, uninhibited women for a good battle.  Whether they needed the money (which most probably did) or they just liked to fight are two possibilities.  But unless someone from those production companies steps up and answers your Q, we'll never know for sure. 

Later on, a lot of the fights were produced by Deb and her husband.  She said that they ran ads in local papers in the Chicago area and managed to attract women that way.  I would assume that word-of-mouth provided other leads. 
No doubt the women who fought were downright tough girls, who had probably been involved in fights throughout their life.  They money was probably OK, but here's another possible motive.  Most people like to watch themselves on video, and for some of these Crystal fighters they became cult heroines overnight.  Years ago I had a student who used to bring his video camera to school (before cell phones) and film fights that occurred in and around school.  He would make copies and sell the VHS tapes to the combatants.  He did quite a business. 

Just my thoughts.

I think by Chicago area you mean the suburbs As for filming fights... not legal advice, but fetish aside, such real-life fights are assault and battery, and while a person, who's not a law enforcement officer or in a position of authority (like a teacher), isn't required to break up a fight, filming it with prior intent makes one an accessory, so best not do it.

[wasteland1952]

Thanks again for the excellent replies.

Catfightlover, if I remember correctly, that's what got Jerry Springer in trouble when his show first debuted.  When his show first aired, the girls who fought, were actually allowed to fight for a while before the security guys broke them apart.  But someone in city government, if I remember right, wondered why the security guys weren't arresting those women for battery.  It seems most of the security guys on that show were off duty cops.  So after that, the women might start towards one another, but they were immediately broken up and not allowed to fight.  Quite unlike the Jose Luis show.

[catfightlover40]

Thanks again for the excellent replies.

Catfightlover, if I remember correctly, that's what got Jerry Springer in trouble when his show first debuted.  When his show first aired, the girls who fought, were actually allowed to fight for a while before the security guys broke them apart.  But someone in city government, if I remember right, wondered why the security guys weren't arresting those women for battery.  It seems most of the security guys on that show were off duty cops.  So after that, the women might start towards one another, but they were immediately broken up and not allowed to fight.  Quite unlike the Jose Luis show.

High profile shows usually make participants sign an agreement where they forego liability claims toward those who form part of making said show in the strong knowledge that they have more money for legal fees. If a fight is filmed that is across the street that is busy traveled, than there's no liability, but directly filming it and later profiting from it is right up there with revenge porn, context and content matters

[Bear]

I think by Chicago area you mean the suburbs As for filming fights... not legal advice, but fetish aside, such real-life fights are assault and battery, and while a person, who's not a law enforcement officer or in a position of authority (like a teacher), isn't required to break up a fight, filming it with prior intent makes one an accessory, so best not do it.
[/quote]

Very true about the legal ramifications.  A few years ago, somebody ran an ad in the SF Chronicle looking for prospective catfighters.  They were arrested within a week. 

[LQQKING4CATFIGHTER]

A couple of days ago, my good friend posted the old classic Crystal video of Mary vs Theresa.  I made a comment that both of those women must be in their 50's by now, and perhaps have grand kids.

I've always been extremely curious about the backgrounds of the women who agree to meet and fight for outfits like Crystal, ECNWC, etc.  I've always been fascinated by the fact that some of these women may be the girl next door, your neighbor, the soccer mom down the street, the woman who waited on you at the DMV office, or any other regular woman you might know or run across in everyday life.  It could even be your wife or girlfriend.

I know that any everyday, girl next door might get into a catfight if they had a little too much to drink, and get into an altercation at a bar or club, or if some woman came up to them and attacked them for whatever reason.  But I'm talking about the producers of catfights.  Who do they get to fight for their videos, and how do they find women who will do it?  I've always found it extra thrilling to think that a woman I worked with, or my doctor, lawyer, or bank teller had a secret life as a catfighter.  And it's an extra turn on if they are married and have children.

I had always heard that the girls who fought for Crystal were dancers or strippers.  I also heard that Andi, the beautiful and buxom Crystal fighter stopped fighting when she got married, and her husband didn't want her to fight anymore.

Can anyone shed any light on this?  If anyone has ever worked producing catfight videos, or known someone in the business, I'd be curious to know how they get women to fight, and what type of women agree to do it.

  There are 3 types of female fighters.

1.  Competitive women who enjoy fighting and see it as sport or might be interested in it as fetish.
2.  They are fighting for the money. Session Wrestlers, Fetish Doms, strippers and models.
3.  They are with a guy that is interested in catfights.

   I've meet girls that shoot different type matches and most start out doing it for the money and the ones that stay long term do it out of love.  Crystal was one of the few producers to get regular girls to shoot all out fights. Mike from Asian Connection asked girls at the mall to shoot for him. Green Monster in Boston would post flyers around colleges asking for models to shoot sports shoots.

[bbvmoe]

All really good points. Within the last few years I followed a story about a cop who filmed women catfighting and paid the fighters for participating. It was his “small business” and he didn’t see the harm in encouraging women who he met “on the job”. Here’s a story from a local newspaper in North Carolina:

https://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/news/local/crime/article183736721.html

I'd find 3 Latin words for describing it, but since it lost all meaning, I shouldn't bother

Awesome replies.

MaskedBunny, I understand what you're saying about girls wrestling.  What I'm really curious about, though, is actual fights.  I know that the ECNWC fights I've seen have been genuine, but there were also obvious rules.  For instance, I never saw those women hit each other in the face.  And of course, no scratching or biting.  Crystal didn't allow biting or scratching either, but aside from that, those women really fought just like they would on the street.  I get that ordinary, girl next door women, who might have done some wrestling in high school or college might be interesting in doing some wrestling.  But to actually engage in a catfight, that's something else.  I don't know why, but it just fascinates me, the thought of a couple of girl next door types, agreeing to meet to engage in a real catfight.

Cornerman, thanks for that article.  I hadn't seen that.  Do you know if that guy went to jail?

A later article stated that the guy died at home due to natural causes and never even went to trial on any charges as he died before his trial ever started

[tafflion]

I worked with a woman over thirty years ago, who had done a catfight with another woman for a video. She said it was originally done for a laugh. It was more rolling around wrestling, and some hair pulling, than actual fighting. It was done by her, for a laugh, although she was paid. I think she told me it was £25. Not a lot by today’s standards, but a nice bit of pocket money then. Other women done it for that. She did tell me one woman ended up crying when a fight turned real.

I lost touch with that woman years ago. I wish I knew her now. I could ask so many questions.