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J.T.Edson "Slip Gun" catfight

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Offline coachzzz

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Re: J.T.Edson "Slip Gun" catfight
« Reply #105 on: May 15, 2014, 06:47:57 PM »
I think they could have had a "straight-up fight", given Alice's utter dislike for Marla. It was personal enough that she did not bring her badge and gun to the fight, feeling that she did not want to dishonor her badge that way.   Being the "face" in this fight, she would not have double crossed that sentiment by trying to put Marla in jail afterwards--only the "heel" does that.   The bigger problem is the vast difference in training, which allows Alice to switch back into law enforcement tactics during the fight and that Marla has no answer for that.   If Marla had some combat training (wrestler, ex-law officer, soldier, whatever) such that there was no disparity, the long slam-bang ending would have worked and been a great finish to the book, which deserved it after the great build up.  Frankly the build up is as good as in any of his novel's but the resulting fight is a major letdown.   If you could have put the fight similar to the one in the Deputies between Alice and Helen the wrestler in a reasonable way as the end of this book, it would have been an all-time classic of the genre.


 


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Offline maine516

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Re: J.T.Edson "Slip Gun" catfight
« Reply #106 on: May 16, 2014, 05:01:57 AM »
I totally agree coach.  I think JT wimped out on this one too.  He opted to care more about Alice's conscience in the fight also rather than her desire to settle their hated rivalry.  Perhaps he chose that route because in the end they are revealed as being cousins, so they had blood ties.  Maybe if they did not have that relationship, he might have chosen a different ending.  It was such a great build-up, he could have made a classic fight ending.  I wonder if JT struggled with where to draw the line sometimes re his apparent fondness for catfights, in the sense of almost covering this up somewhat by the explanation of wanting to present strong female heroine characters.  In other words, he pulled back on the throttle in some of these catfights so as to not be seen as just a outright lover of catfights.

There have been numerous instances in movies and TV shows, Westerns in particular come to mind, where a good-guy, white-hat wearing law respecting sheriff/deputy/cop takes off or puts down his badge and gun belt to fair fight a villain, sometimes with witnesses and sometimes without witnesses.  That's not the hard part to work into the script.  As you say, the real difficulty here is the fighting training that Alice had and could revert to during the fight.  Interestingly, Marla made the comment to her husband just after the fight that she had been taking judo lessons.  She possibly made that up to cover the reason for the fight, but it did make me think she was more qualified than I thought.  No matter, the last thing I would have wanted to see would have been a martial arts type fight.  Hell, that's not catfighting.

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Offline coachzzz

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Re: J.T.Edson "Slip Gun" catfight
« Reply #107 on: May 16, 2014, 05:41:33 PM »
Yes, and that is why I come back to the scene with Alice versus Helen (the pro wrestler) in the Deputies.  It was not a martial arts match-up at all; it was a mixture of everything.  While I consider Slip Gun to be his best scene out of all of his books, that fight in the Deputies makes my top 5.  The two fighters were not only evenly matched, but had some experience and skill.   In addition, they were trained, but trained differently, so there were strengths and weaknesses in the match-up. 

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Offline maine516

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Re: J.T.Edson "Slip Gun" catfight
« Reply #108 on: May 21, 2014, 03:45:12 AM »
I'm half-way through reading Comanche.  There doesn't appear to be a catfight.  That said, I'm enjoying the book as it's about the early life of the Ysabel Kid, my favorite male character in JT's westerns, growing up Comanche.  Interesting background on how the Comanche lived in that time.

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Offline maine516

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Re: J.T.Edson "Slip Gun" catfight
« Reply #109 on: May 24, 2014, 04:38:53 AM »
Has anyone read "Fearless Master of the Jungle"?  I know there's a catfight in the book.  I'm considering buying it but the price is a little expensive.  I'm looking to find out of the fight is a very good one that might justify the purchase price for me.  Thanks in advance.

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Offline maine516

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Re: J.T.Edson "Slip Gun" catfight
« Reply #110 on: June 08, 2014, 07:05:11 PM »
Just confirming that Go Back To Hell does not have a catfight.  Belle Starr and Emma Nene are in the first part of the book and there are references to the 2 excellent fights they had in Hell in the Paulo Duro, and there are a couple of brief, tense moments between the 2 women in this book where a re-match fight could have broken out between them, but nothing happens.  The book itself is a pretty good story.

My inventory of JT's books is now getting low, so time to buy some more and hunt for hidden catfight gems.  I'll update on what I find.

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Offline maine516

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Re: J.T.Edson "Slip Gun" catfight
« Reply #111 on: July 07, 2014, 03:07:47 AM »
Just finished reading Mark Counter's Kin.  It's a collection of 4 separate stories of future and current relations to Mark Counter.  There's one not bad catfight at the very beginning between Dawn Drummond Clayton (from the Bunduki series) and a equally tough and beautiful woman named Minna.  It takes place in the dining room of a prestigious hotel in "Ambagazali".  Bunduki also fights 2 bad guys at the same time so the female fight is described between different paragraphs.  The biggest detraction is that the fight is staged, using stunt people, to promote a new action film called "Lorna, Ruler of the Jungle".  There is a female fight in the film and the beautiful heroine and equally beautiful villainess and both in attendance at the dining room.  The fight runs a few pages, but the staged factor takes away a lot for me.

There is one other very brief fight in a jail cell between Jessica Front de Boeuf and 3 prostitutes in the fourth story.  It's a very brief one-punch, one paragraph affair that's not work counting as a catfight. 

Bottom line, I wouldn't waste time picking up this book just for the okay Dawn Drummond Clayton fight.  The stories aren't all that great either.

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Offline maine516

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Re: J.T.Edson "Slip Gun" catfight
« Reply #112 on: July 16, 2014, 01:35:19 AM »
J.T.'s Ladies Ride Again (1989). Four separate stories featuring: Alice Fayde (Rockabye County series), Amanda Tweedle, Rita Yarborough and Calamity Jane & Belle Starr.  No female fights in the Alice Fayde or Rita Yarborough stories (disappointing).  The Amanda Tweedle ("The School Swot", whatever the hell that is) story has a very long 4 woman tag-team ring wrestling match (not my thing).  Calamity Jane and Belle Starr work together to bust a 5 woman "Women's Rights" poker cheating group.  There's a climatic brawl between all of them that takes place in an empty mansion (owners are away).  That sounds good, except the 5 "Women's Rights" women are described as either tall and bony or fat and dumpy lesbians (J.T. seems to include being completely anti-lesbian in his extreme conservative views) and this is their first fight.  The fight runs several pages, but it just didn't work for me because of how poorly the 5 "Women's Right's" ladies were portrayed.  On a scale of 3 being excellent to 0 having no catfights, I give this book a 1 rating only because it had catfights.

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Offline sinclairfan

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Re: J.T.Edson "Slip Gun" catfight
« Reply #113 on: July 16, 2014, 06:37:33 PM »
Ironically, wasn't the real Calamity Jane a lesbian?

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Offline CoffeeMug

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Re: J.T.Edson "Slip Gun" catfight
« Reply #114 on: July 20, 2014, 07:23:12 PM »
That's how she is portrayed on Deadwood (HBO).  I've never looked up whether it's accurate.

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Offline maine516

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Re: J.T.Edson "Slip Gun" catfight
« Reply #115 on: July 27, 2014, 04:27:33 AM »
McGraw's Inheritance (1968).  No catfight.  Betty Hardin delivers a single karate thrust to saloon girl Stevie Cameron's left breast as she is rising from her bed, but it ends right there.  The story itself is not a bad read - could have been a decent 1950's western movie.

I've ordered The Return of Rapido Clint and Mr JG Reeder and Fearless Master of the Jungle.  I'm hoping both books have better than average catfights.  I believe Fearless Master will have a very good fight between Dawn Drummond-Clayton and a jungle priestess by the name of Charole.  From a synopsis I've read of other books in the series, DDC and Charole are enemies from the beginning and in Fearless Master (the 4th book) they finally have a showdown.  Starting out in what I presume will be skimpy jungle bikinis, I'm hoping it's a long, tough semi or fully naked battle.  Anyway, we'll see and I'll report it here.

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Offline sinclairfan

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Re: J.T.Edson "Slip Gun" catfight
« Reply #116 on: July 27, 2014, 11:03:41 AM »
Is D-DC blonde?  redhead?  other?

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Offline cosette

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Re: J.T.Edson "Slip Gun" catfight
« Reply #117 on: July 27, 2014, 04:34:29 PM »

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Offline cosette

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Re: J.T.Edson "Slip Gun" catfight
« Reply #118 on: July 27, 2014, 07:20:53 PM »
I've tried to find information on these books but cannot find out if they feature a catfight or not:

Floating Outfit-series:
 Goodnight's Dream
 Set Texas Back on Her Feet
 The Hooded Riders
 Trail Boss
 Sidewinder
 Rangeland Hercules
 The Half Breed
 White Indians
 The Fast Gun
 Trigger Fast
 The Making of a Lawman
 The Trouble Busters
 Decision for Dusty Fog
 The Code of Dusty Fog
 The Gentle Giant
 Set A-foot
 The Peacemakers
 Beguinage
 The Rushers
 Buffalo Are Coming!
 Rio Guns
 Gun Wizard
 The Rio Hondo Kid
 The Floating Outfit
 Apache Rampage
 Gunsmoke Thunder
 The Small Texan
 Return to Backsight
 Wedge Goes to Arizona
 Arizona Range War
 Arizona Gun Law
 Texas Killers

Waco-series:
 Arizona Ranger
 Doc Leroy, MD

Civil War-series
 You're in Command Now, Mr Fog
 The Big Gun
 Under the Stars and Bars
 Fastest Gun in Texas
 Kill Dusty Fog!

Calamity Jane-series
 The Remittance Kid
 The Big Hunt

Rockabye County-series
 The Sixteen-Dollar Shooter
 The Owlhoot

Waxahachie-series

Cure the Texas Fever

Ole Devil-series
 Ole Devil and the Caplocks
 Ole Devil and the Mule Train
 Ole Devil at San Jacinto
 Get Urrea!

Bunduki-series
 Bunduki

Cap Fog-series
 You're a Texas Ranger, Alvin Fog
 The Justice of Company Z

Other
Slaughter's Way
Two Miles to the Border

If you know anything, please help


« Last Edit: July 27, 2014, 07:21:22 PM by cosette »

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Offline CoffeeMug

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Re: J.T.Edson "Slip Gun" catfight
« Reply #119 on: July 27, 2014, 09:25:57 PM »
Maine, I'm eagerly anticipating your report on the fight from Fearless Master.

JT Edson died just a few days ago :(

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obituar.ies/10991471/JT-Edson-obituary.html

Given some of the content in his books (which we discussed toward the start of this thread), I can't say this makes me entirely sad.