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J.T.Edson "Slip Gun" catfight

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Offline cosette

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Re: J.T.Edson "Slip Gun" catfight
« Reply #120 on: July 27, 2014, 09:50:56 PM »
Maine, I'm eagerly anticipating your report on the fight from Fearless Master.

JT Edson died just a few days ago :(

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obituar.ies/10991471/JT-Edson-obituary.html

Given some of the content in his books (which we discussed toward the start of this thread), I can't say this makes me entirely sad.

Don't care about his political stance... I'm just here for the catfights...

Hopefully we will see Miz Freddie of Kansas or Amazons of Zillikian published somewhere... or maybe it's not probable now when he's gone...

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Offline maine516

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Re: J.T.Edson "Slip Gun" catfight
« Reply #121 on: July 28, 2014, 02:05:38 AM »
Well, in spite of JT having what certainly seemed to me far less than desirable political views, I am somewhat saddened by his passing.  I am not aware of any other book author who contributed as much to the interests of catfighting.  I also actually enjoyed his obvious passion for writing about the Old West and I learned a lot about that era, though probably at times in more descriptive details than necessary.  A good example to me of learning about the West is the book Comanche, which provides a lot of interesting detail about being raised as a Comanche.  I also liked his characters, especially the Ysabel Kid, Dusty Fog, and of course his portrayals of Belle Boyd, Belle Starr, Calamity Jane and many other female characters in his books.  I truly wish there was a modern day person to take his place.

As to D D-C's hair color, it's described as "tawny".  I believe that's a lighter, orangy shade of brown.

I've read around 50-55 books so far and can't remember all of the fights, but I keep a record and assign a number to them between 3 and 0, with 3 being excellent in my opinion and 0 having no catfights.   I've not yet come across most of the books on cosette's list, but I can comment on 3 of them as follows:

Trouble Busters = 3
Gunsmoke Thunder = 1
The Remittance Kid = Has a catfight, but I haven't read the book yet

CoffeMug - I have some good news.  Fearless Master arrived yesterday.  I've only flipped though the book so far, but although the fight I was hoping to read about between D D-C and Charole does not happen (it almost does at the end), there is a much better than average fight between Charole, Protectress of The Quagga God, and Shushi, war-lady of another tribe, that takes place around a camp setting.  At the very beginning of the fight, both women sense it will be a hard hand-to-hand fight.  While circling each other at the start, Shushi removes her tunic to leave her clad only in brief silk scarlet panties, as brief as the only garment worn by Charole.  It's an all-out battle and the fight description runs about 5 pages.  Charole also has an earlier battle with another Amazon warrior but it's a sword fight.  The book has many references to jungle warrior women, so that certainly helps with the suspense.  The book wasn't cheap - I picked up a very good condition copy for $13.  To me it looks like it was worth it, but you'll have to make that decision.   







 

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Offline cosette

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Re: J.T.Edson "Slip Gun" catfight
« Reply #122 on: July 28, 2014, 06:22:50 PM »
Thanks for the information maine516

What is your opinion of the catfight in Whip and the Warlance? Is it fatal?

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Offline CoffeeMug

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Re: J.T.Edson "Slip Gun" catfight
« Reply #123 on: July 28, 2014, 06:26:56 PM »
@maine516

So, that fight between Dawn and Charole/Carol got an entire series of build-up and then never happened (or is in the unpublished final book)???

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Offline sinclairfan

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Re: J.T.Edson "Slip Gun" catfight
« Reply #124 on: July 28, 2014, 09:06:45 PM »
The Whip and the Warlance fight (Calamity Jane vs Irene Deauville) would have been fatal, but got interrupted.  Edison couldn't bring himself to write a fatal fight (even in stories happening during the Civil War), and couldn't bring himself to have Calamity Jane fight Belle Boyd.

These were both significant shortcomings.

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Offline Fayefights

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Re: J.T.Edson "Slip Gun" catfight
« Reply #125 on: July 28, 2014, 10:36:35 PM »

Terror Valley : The Countess and the Mistress have a savage catfight wearing tight fitting gown with pleated skirts , both wear heels and jewellery. They fight for a long time in the room , rolling and thrashing over and over , shredding stockings and ripping gowns. The catfight climaxes on the Balcony with both women naked to the waist , in a tight breast to breast embrace they stagger towards the balcony................ the outcome becomes a fight to the death as the women die locked together, but there is more to the outcome than that.

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Offline maine516

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Re: J.T.Edson "Slip Gun" catfight
« Reply #126 on: July 29, 2014, 06:27:08 AM »
Coffemug - my guess is there was or would have been a final confrontation between Dawn and Charole in the unpublished book.  At the very end of Fearless Master, both women charge at each other with knives in hand but Shushi appears and hurls a weapon of some sort at Charole.  She narrowly voids death by jumping off a cliff into a river.  At the last scene, Charole looks up from a boat that scoops her out of the river and swears she will get her revenge against Bunduki and Dawn.  Dawn turns to Bunduki and says let her come anytime and when she does I'll see that she never tries to kill us again.  What a cliffhanger to leave - and not see finished.   What an ultimate fight that would have been.  Damn!

cosette - I think the catfight in Whip and the Warlance is very good.  Both Calamity and Irene start the fight topless and it's a rigorous back and forth affair.   Also, in my view, it is definitely fatal for Irene.  At the very end, Irene picks up her knife, discarded during the fight, and tries to stab Calamity in a downward thrust, but Calamity blocks the blow and turns Irene's wrist around so that the knife blade is buried deep into Irene's stomach.  She staggers forward a few steps trying to withdraw the knife, but "her legs buckled and she fell forward to drive it in again".  The following two-sentence final paragraph of the book doesn't say outright that she is, but it's certainly intimated that she is dead.

sinclairfan - If you still have Whip and the Warlance, you may want to re-read the last couple pages to check this out.  Also, as Fayefights has pointed out, The Countess and Shelia (the mistress) both die in the vicious catfight in Terror Valley (I won't say how, but they fall together off the balcony) so I would say those are 2 examples of JT's catfight's having fatal endings.  Of the books I've read though, I don't recall any other fatal endings.  Oops, wait a second, there are 2 others with fatal fights that I just thought of: In The Hide and Tallow Men, the fight between Gianna and Marlene ends with both dying (Gianna stabs Marlene but Marlene shoots Gianna in the head before she bleeds to death). In A Horse Called Mogollon, in the fight between Libby and Beatrice, Beatrice dies when the knife she tries to kill Libby with ends up plunging into her own femoral artery and she quickly bleeds out.     



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Offline sinclairfan

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Re: J.T.Edson "Slip Gun" catfight
« Reply #127 on: July 29, 2014, 07:22:42 PM »
Maine--that's sort of my point tho.  Whenever a fight escalated to death, Edson could never let the victor enjoy the win.  He almost had some sort of Freudian/Catholic guilt thing going.

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Offline maine516

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Re: J.T.Edson "Slip Gun" catfight
« Reply #128 on: July 30, 2014, 03:28:25 AM »
Claudiax - Interesting question, but I have no idea how you would go about this, or for that matter, if any of his works were ever translated into Italian.  Maybe those few books that have been converted to an online format (Kindle?) might be viewable in different languages - but I don't do that so that's just speculation on my part.  Would the translation make them a "spaghetti western"?

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Offline maine516

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Re: J.T.Edson "Slip Gun" catfight
« Reply #129 on: July 30, 2014, 03:47:18 AM »
Sinclair - Sorry buddy, you lost me on the fatality point.  Not sure why you would want or expect the victor to "enjoy" killing the other person in the western books.  The winners of these female catfights were the good girls and they weren't sadistic or uncivilized killers.  The exception would be in the Bunduki series where it's about tribal jungle life and killing there is viewed differently.  The D D-C character in this series would be more inclined to celebrating, or at least feeling good about a death victory over an enemy.  As would the other warrior-women.

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Offline sinclairfan

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Re: J.T.Edson "Slip Gun" catfight
« Reply #130 on: July 30, 2014, 09:08:36 AM »
I've never gotten the impression that any of Belle Starr, Calamity Jane, or Belle Boyd were straight good girls.  Belle Starr is an explicitly unrepentant outlaw, Calamity Jane is quite anti-social, and Belle Boyd spied for the Confederacy.  Doesn't get much worse than that.

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Offline maine516

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Re: J.T.Edson "Slip Gun" catfight
« Reply #131 on: July 31, 2014, 05:31:51 AM »
True, neither of the Belle's or Calamity were perfect angels, but it was the old west after all and they weren't killers.  The people who did die at their hands were usually people far worse than them who deserved their fate.  I just don't see anything in their characters that would make them enjoy killing another woman in a fight.  I think their characters, while certainly not perfect, were above that.  Again, the warrior-women in Bunduki have a different perspective.  Anyway, I'm not interested in or looking for catfights in these books that end in death.  If it happens as part of the story, so be it.  I'm just looking for long, sexy, evenly-matched catfights that take place in a variety of scenarios.

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Offline sinclairfan

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Re: J.T.Edson "Slip Gun" catfight
« Reply #132 on: August 03, 2014, 01:42:11 AM »
The "Terror Valley" catfight, with both women getting killed the way they did, proves my point.

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Offline maine516

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Re: J.T.Edson "Slip Gun" catfight
« Reply #133 on: August 09, 2014, 04:56:44 AM »
The Bull Whip Breed (1968) - Most folks on this thread are probably already aware of the catfight in this book between Calamity Jane and the savate fighter Jacqueline.  For those who are not, I'm confirming is it a pretty decent saloon battle that takes place in New Orleans.  It starts out with Jacqueline in control and literally "kicking" Jane's butt around until Jane finally catches her and it becomes a rough house brawl.  As their fight moves around the saloon, a few socialite women and saloon girls join the fray and it becomes a mass brawl.  No nudity (all the buttons on Jane's shirt come off but she's wearing a vest underneath).  There's a good build up and the description runs several pages.  Overall, I'd say it's an above average catfight.

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Offline JT Edson

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Re: J.T.Edson "Slip Gun" catfight
« Reply #134 on: August 09, 2014, 01:38:43 PM »
The Bull Whip Breed (1968) - Most folks on this thread are probably already aware of the catfight in this book between Calamity Jane and the savate fighter Jacqueline.  For those who are not, I'm confirming is it a pretty decent saloon battle that takes place in New Orleans.  It starts out with Jacqueline in control and literally "kicking" Jane's butt around until Jane finally catches her and it becomes a rough house brawl.  As their fight moves around the saloon, a few socialite women and saloon girls join the fray and it becomes a mass brawl.  No nudity (all the buttons on Jane's shirt come off but she's wearing a vest underneath).  There's a good build up and the description runs several pages.  Overall, I'd say it's an above average catfight.

Thanks for sharing anyway. I think it is always nice to mention these things.