[maine516]

CoffeeMug - Thanks for adding your comments to this thread.  Just one small correction; the fights you referred being in Renegade are actually from Back to the Bloody Border.   I just read the book and posted comments on it here. 

I agree with you about JT's political opinion infusions into his books; definitely conservative, biased against all liberals, pro-confederacy and possibly pro slavery as well.  He also seemed to favor states rights, or maybe that was his excuse for supporting slavery.  He hated the Earp brothers too for some unknown reason!  Anyway, I'm just glad he was into strong female characters and catfights!

I have the Quest for Bowie's Blade - there is a fight in there between Belle Starr and Bell Boyd.  I won't comment on it, I'll let you discover it for yourself.  I also just ordered JT's Ladies; it's coming from England and for some reason won't get here until the end of December.  I'm looking forward to one of the fights in that book with the female lead from the Bunduki series.

[CoffeeMug]

CoffeeMug - Thanks for adding your comments to this thread.  Just one small correction; the fights you referred being in Renegade are actually from Back to the Bloody Border.   I just read the book and posted comments on it here.  

I am 98% sure that Renegade and Back to the Bloody Border are the same book with a title change.  I can't find a link for that change right now, but JT's Wiki page has a list of others.  (Correction:  It is listed on the Wiki page.)

Trust me, I am eagerly awaiting the arrival of Quest for Bowie's Blade!

Edit:  While I'm at it, can anyone suggest other novels with Belle Starr (beyond the ones I mentioned in my longer post)?  Searching on Google just keeps telling me to buy Wanted:  Belle Starr.  Thanks in advance.

[maine516]

Son of a Gun! Renegade and Back to the Bloody Border are indeed the same book with a title change!  I have them both.  I have about 20 of JT's books that I haven't read yet, and I found Renegade in that mix.  With now having about 50 of his books, it's getting harder to keep track of them all.  I've heard that several of his books are reissued under different titles.  I may have to research more to try and avoid.

You'll like the fight in Wanted! Belle Starr.  That's another book released under 2 titles.  Oklahoma Outlaw is also the same book.

The Bad Bunch has a brief fight with Belle Starr as does Sagebrush Sleuth, which I'm reading now.  They're both very short with only a paragraph or two describing the fights.  In two other books I read, there are footnotes referring to a fight between Belle Starr and Jessica Font de Bouef (Mark Counter's kin) in Part 4 of Wanted! Belle Starr.  However there is no Part 4 in that book and I've not been able to find that fight as yet anywhere.  If it does exist, it's probably a very good battle as Jessica is a real tough woman as well.

Hey, I just remembered - there is a very good Belle Starr female fight (no weapons) in Waco's Badge.

[sinclairfan]

This might be reading something into it that isn't there, but Edson seems to have more of an attachment to Calamity Jane and Belle Boyd than he does to Belle Starr.  The Calam and Boyd fights seem to have more of an edge to them.

[CoffeeMug]

I got JT's Ladies in the mail.  It has several fights:  Dawn Drummon-Clayton vs. a busty Russian woman, Belle Boyd vs. a tall, buxom blonde woman who works for a fight fetishist, and a topless boxing match between two busty women whose names I didn't recognize.  I'd say that each fight individually is good to quite good, and it's a great book for having three different fights of such quality.  But no one fight on its own seemed like a home run to me.

Right now, I'm waiting for the mail to bring me Wanted: Belle Starr, The Bad Bunch, Texas Trio, The Quest for Bowie's Blade, and From Hide and Horn.

@ Maine516.  I liked that fight in Waco's Badge a lot, just not quite as much as the others involving her. It's on Kindle.  Regarding the fight between Belle and this Jessica woman, given the number of pages he published, over so many years, it wouldn't surprise me if there are just bad mistakes in his writing--or by the publisher.  Who knows?

@ Sinclairfan.  I don't think that's a stretch.  I have three books in which Belle Starr has major fights, and in one of them she spends the book pretending to be someone else.  In another, she just shows up out of the blue halfway through.  And the third sort of combines the two strategies.  If he liked her better, she would have been more at the center of things.  Belle Starr doesn't get the character detailing that Belle Boyd gets, or the endless titles that Calamity Jane does.  I actually kind of like it that way.  It's easier for me to feel attached or root for a character I feel like the author doesn't like.  When I was little I rooted for Darth Vader for the same reason, so  .

Edit:  @Maine516 What books is this Jessica Font de Bouef in?  Any good fights with her?  I'd rather have an imagined match up than none at all.

[Tomico]

There are some examples of the catfights here for anybody that is interested: http://www.freecatfights.com/forums/index.php/topic,3693.0.html

[maine516]

I'm still waiting on my shipment of JT's Ladies.  The fight I'm looking forward to is the one with Dawn Drummond Clayton.  Someone mentioned it's a topless battle.  I'm hoping it's on the quite good end of the spectrum. 

Coffeemug - I have all 4 books you're waiting for.  The fight between Calamity and Belle in Texas Trio is very good.  It's also told in Troubled Range.  The Bad Bunch was a disappointment; it's chuck full of good and bad female characters but only has one decent fight.  It could have been a goldmine of female battles.  The Quest for Bowie's Blade has a pretty good fight between the two Belle's if I recall correctly.  I thought From Hide and Horn was actually a very good story.  It was about an original long cattle drive.  It reminded me of the old TV show Rawhide.  The fight between Dawn and Barbe is only average though.

I agree that JT favored Calamity and Belle Boyd.  Also, as sinclairfan noted earlier, they never fought each other.  Too bad he didn't elevate Belle Starr to that level.  We could have enjoyed several more outstanding fights with Belle Starr.

I came across Jessica Font de Bouef in Cut One They All Bleed.  Although she's a main character, there are no female fights in that book.  She is beautiful, tough con artist and does have a fight in one book.  I think it's in JT's Ladies Ride Again.  It's not special though as she easily defeats a couple of saloon girls I believe.  I wrote to the company that took over Corgi books about the missing Part 4 of Wanted! Belle Starr, noted in two different books as a footnote, but of course I never heard back from them.  I hope it does exist and will came across it someday.  From reading about Jessica, a fight between her and Belle Starr would be one hell of a long and even battle!
 

[CoffeeMug]

Update!

I can confirm that The Bad Bunch and From Hide and Horn were both disappointing.  On top of being mediocre, the fight in From Hide and Horn ends in a death, which is basically a no-go for me.  I loved the fight between Belle Starr and Belle Boyd in The Quest for Bowie's Blade, but as I say that as a newly confirmed Belle Starr fanatic, and I think if that if it were different characters I'd just rate it as "okay."  I knew that Texas Trio was an expansion of the first part of Troubled Range, but I bought it in hopes that the fight would be part of the expansion.  No luck.  It's the same, or close enough as makes no difference.  Still waiting for Wanted: Belle Starr, which I have high hopes for.

The first few Edson books I bought hard copies of had great fights in them, but now I definitely feel like I'm hitting diminishing returns.  Had to happen, I suppose, but still disappointing.

[sinclairfan]

The Belle Starr catfights generally just aren't worth it --Edson never found a fight style for her.  Belle Boyd was New Orleans-style French savate, and Calamity Jane was hairpulling/clothes-tearing brawling, but Belle Starr never found a style.

[maine516]

Coffeemug - These books don't involve Belle Starr, but I think the saloon brawls in "Quiet Town" and "The Trouble Busters" were very good.  If you haven't read these, you might want to give them a try.  There's a lot of buildup to the eventual fights in both books which adds interest.  Freddie Woods in Trouble Busters is a beautiful but tough fighting saloon owner/mayor.  She eventually marries Dusty Fog.

[maine516]

Just finished another book - Sagebrush Sleuth.  Two very short catfights, only a paragraph or two of description.  One fight is between Belle Starr and Rona, a saloon girl who is pretending to be Belle Starr robbing stagecoaches.  The other is between Libby Hogan, saloon gal, and Mary Ryan, a townswoman.  The main issue is that the fights are way too short.  That's because the book is made up of 7 seven separate short stories that only run about 20 to 25 pages each.  So, I wouldn't go out of the way to get this book for the catfights; only if you enjoy reading his westerns and just want to had this one to your collection.

[sinclairfan]

maine--I agree a short Edson fight can be a letdown.  But on the other hand, which is more realistic:  a short dustup, or 2 women throwing each other around like ragdolls for 25 minutes?

[maine516]

Let me see if I can clarify.  I'm not overly interested in scrutinizing how realistic a catfight is or should be, or how verified the credentials of the fighting women are in JT's books.  I'm reading these books in the hope of finding descriptions of long, excellent catfight battles between two evenly-matched sexy women.  That tends to be more fantasy than realism, but for me, that's the whole point.  A two paragraph catfight that lasts 5-10 minutes may be more realistic, but that's a major disappointment in terms of what I'm looking. 

What meets my interest is a sexually satisfying fantasy catfight.  I like the fights JT creates where there is a build-up beforehand to the eventual fight, through verbal confrontations, or the women each separately talking about despising each other and wanting to fight the other.  Or, there is just some type of independent build up to the fight and you know it's coming at some point.  Then the women finally do come together for a long see-saw battle where they either start out topless, or end up topless or naked still battling.  Some of JT's catfights meet that criteria and I continue to search for more that do.  I have about 50 of his books now but there are another 75 or more out there.  As long as the prices aren't steep, I'll continue to look for what I hope are a few more real gems.  The search has become somewhat of a nice distraction and hobby. 

Coffemug - I think you and I are on a similar wavelength in terms of what we're looking for in these books, other than I don't have a particular preference for Belle Starr vs. Belle Boyd vs. Calamity Jane.  I'm just looking for a great catfight, whether it contains these ladies or not.  I have found some of the other female characters, like Freddie Woods, to be just as interesting.  It's the overall quality of the catfight that I'm after.  I just got my copy of JT's Ladies.  I have the same assessment as you - no home runs.  I was hoping the JT Ladies books would have several top quality catfights, but haven't found that to be the case.  I know that's not the primary reason for the stories, but still disappointing.

[sinclairfan]

maine--you might want to checkout "Tomboy" by an author named Ellson.  Two 1940s-style catfights, one gang-vs-gang, the other over a guy.

[CoffeeMug]

@ Maine:  Thanks for the suggestions on Trouble Busters and Quiet Town.  I'll check them out after the holidays.