[Stunning Steph]

So those that know me will know that I can be pretty random so I had a thought and that thought was then accompanied by another and that other thought was perhaps I should express my original thought in the form of a long rambling post but don't worry there will be a TL:DR bit at the end.

So exploring the forums I notice there is a section for tournaments and a section for leagues. I get the appeal of these to some degree they appeal to me but I think tournaments have a real flaw in the fact that to get the most matches you have to keep winning as those that are knocked out no longer participate and both have a real drawback in the fact that they are obviously set up to best promote those with the best win rates which encourages people to focus on winning at all costs which can often derail things and lead to 'supering'. They also require some degree of coordination in that they can't progress until everyone involved has been able to meet up to have their matches which can result in big delays or having to proceed without certain people which could mean it's not possible to see things through to a satisfying conclusion.

I go in to this a little in my profile but to me the winning or losing isn't the most important part of a cyber fight, it's crafting something that all participants can enjoy although all other things being equal those that are blessed with better creativity could conceivably win more by being able to think of more effective attacks and/or counters and tactics. Usually when I 'lose' it's because I feel like my opponent has done enough to warrant winning. I like to think when I 'win' it's usually for the same reason that my opponent feels I've done enough to earn the victory.

My opinion and I know it's just my opinion but I think it is shared by some others on here is obviously somewhat at odds with the idea of tournaments and leagues. So that's when I had my thought. How can you reconcile the two?

Again for those that know me or have read my profile I'm a fan of pro-wrestling and right now you've got the situation where you have two competing wrestling shows airing in the same time-slot which both appeal to the same demographic so are directly competing and are therefore both trying to put on the best show possible. In wrestling the the champions aren't really the best athletes or the most popular characters, they are more the face of the business, the poster girls or boys as it were, they are an attraction certainly and they are usually pretty good but it's not all about them and you will often have situations where the hardest working entertainers or the technically better members of the roster are lower down the pecking order because they aren't actually fighting to win, they are playing characters and are given story-lines to work through and are there to put on a show. You also don't have the same people competing week in and week out, sure there are some featured more regularly than others but sometimes you will go weeks without having certain people compete, months even in some cases.

So my thought is does the format of a regular show actually work in the context of cyber fighting? For me this format is just as attractive as a tournament or a league but places less emphasis on winning because if wanted you can have pre-determined outcomes or if the participants can be trusted allow them to determine it during the match. I think this format could also work better in a world where people's availability varies so much, two people don't have a chance to fight? No worries put their next fight on when they do, there isn't a wider tournament or league that can't progress because it's waiting on certain participants. It offers the flexibility of having one off matches or feuds that play out over a number of matches over weeks or months without requiring much in terms of availability.

TL:DR Tournaments and Leagues are difficult to maintain and can empathise winning over quality. I think taking cues from pro-wrestling shows could be a better way of doing things.

I've thought about this quite in-depth, I've not shown all of my working here as I could probably fill pages and to be clear I'm not proposing anything, it's just a thought I had that I felt like sharing.

[Trixie97]

While I agree that cyber fighting leagues has it's problems with planning, I don't entirely agree with the factor of supers and the potential solution.

With regards to supers, that's really easily policed by having an authority of any sort that warns players or disqualifies depending on how things are going and if the warning was issued live or not. Of course, all the same, it is possible for supers to go completely unwarned, but that's a problem with cyber fighting in general and not just leagues.

As for people trying to do everything they can to win - idk about you but I kinda like that? (Within the context of properly responding to my moves of course) If someones going to challenge me to competitive fight, I expect them to beat me unless I bring my A game (unfortunately, most of the so called 'competitive, dominant, alpha' turn out to be the total opposite. Nothing against jobbers or subs, but I  prefer people just being upfront about what they want rather than trash talking me for my size and then dropping to their knees 3 moves into the fight).

But even beyond all that, I think the bigger issue is that your solution wouldn't quite work. Most people don't really want something scripted, a lot of people enjoy the uncertainty of a competitive match. Jobbers want to be beaten up time and time again, not just a one off that drops them out of the league. Dominant fighters are genuinely hard to come by and the ones that do, generally prefer to beat the spirit out of someone, not have it handed it to them due to following a script and being a character of sorts. So whether you've got dommes, subs or competitors in a league, I don't really see this format suiting any of them.

Not trying to bash the idea, and of course its great that people are suggesting ways to improve things (Good on you girl!!), but I just don't see it replacing typical cyber fight leagues as such but may have a shot at appealing to a very specific niche group of 'fighters'/actresses.

[Stunning Steph]

While I agree that cyber fighting leagues has it's problems with planning, I don't entirely agree with the factor of supers and the potential solution.

With regards to supers, that's really easily policed by having an authority of any sort that warns players or disqualifies depending on how things are going and if the warning was issued live or not. Of course, all the same, it is possible for supers to go completely unwarned, but that's a problem with cyber fighting in general and not just leagues.

As for people trying to do everything they can to win - idk about you but I kinda like that? (Within the context of properly responding to my moves of course) If someones going to challenge me to competitive fight, I expect them to beat me unless I bring my A game (unfortunately, most of the so called 'competitive, dominant, alpha' turn out to be the total opposite. Nothing against jobbers or subs, but I  prefer people just being upfront about what they want rather than trash talking me for my size and then dropping to their knees 3 moves into the fight).

I've certainly got no issue with people putting in the effort to win and agree that people being a super isn't limited to these formats. But I do feel that these formats are more likely to promote that, the whole focus is on winning (which I generally believe a fight should be) but its also more public which for some, not all, is more likely to drive them to going too far and crossing that line between being competitive and being invincible.

From what I've seen on FCF signing up for this sort of thing seems to be on a first come first served basis and I can see that coupled with the nature of the format attracting those that have to win no matter what even if it's to the detriment of everyone else involved. That's why I'm suggesting something that's a little more collaborative.

But even beyond all that, I think the bigger issue is that your solution wouldn't quite work. Most people don't really want something scripted, a lot of people enjoy the uncertainty of a competitive match. Jobbers want to be beaten up time and time again, not just a one off that drops them out of the league. Dominant fighters are genuinely hard to come by and the ones that do, generally prefer to beat the spirit out of someone, not have it handed it to them due to following a script and being a character of sorts. So whether you've got dommes, subs or competitors in a league, I don't really see this format suiting any of them.

I agree that some people wouldn't want to engage in fighting if it's scripted but equally some people don't want to get involved in tournaments and leagues. You can also have different degrees of scripting things and not all fights would need to be scripted, scripting is something that could be used as a tool as and when it is appropriate. I've seen that some people use random number generators and the like to determine what happens.

Not trying to bash the idea, and of course its great that people are suggesting ways to improve things (Good on you girl!!), but I just don't see it replacing typical cyber fight leagues as such but may have a shot at appealing to a very specific niche group of 'fighters'/actresses.

You're not coming across as bashing it at all, it's a discussion and I'm really glad that you've chosen to participate in it, we can have different viewpoints and I'm not trying to say I've waved my hand and 'fixed' things, just that I think there is an opportunity for another way of doing things.

[Stunning Steph]

I am a moderator in a decent sized discord wrestling group as well as a member of many other discord wrestling groups.  When you wrestle in a public forum and you run across a super, usually you talk to the super in private.  Most of the time it is unintentional and accidental, rookie mistake.  The other issue besides supers, we run across are the "Closed posters" who will post "I whip you to the ropes and hit you with a clothesline" rather than "I whip you to the ropes and TRY to hit you with a clothesline".  Now sometimes if someone no sells a "closed post" they are accused of being a super.  This is where the moderator of the group needs to step in.  90% of the time the super/closed post issue gets resolved privately.  Repeat offenders often get a reputation in the groups and are eventually shunned by not getting many matches unless they can fool a rookie into facing them.

In a set up such as the one you've described I see how that works well. I imagine that because it's an established group the fact that you need to join the group provides some small barrier to those that are problematic.

With tournaments and leagues, from what I've seen on here there isn't as much opportunity to do that, yes if someone is becoming an issue the organiser or the other participants can have a discussion with them to try and resolve things but if that doesn't work then you're kind of stuck with who you've got as your tournament or league is already live. That doesn't mean you can't remove or replace someone but that can still be pretty disruptive.